This Comes About - How Exactly?

Libertarianism in general

This Comes About - How Exactly?

Postby Jane_Doe » 2015-04-16- 22:53

I've been reading the articles for some time, however there is one issue that is constantly skirted around, or vaguely alluded to. This website is dedicated to showing why Libertarianism is the best economic/political structure, yet you overlook the daunting issues of how it could ever be implemented. As the authors have repeatedly stated, governments wield their vast power towards two primary goals: socialization so as to acquire more votes; and espionage programs (censorship/data analysis etc...). No sane government would ever switch to libertarianism (it would be literal political suicide), and the articles clearly agree with me there. Instead, it seems to be alluded that when socialist governments collapse under their own economic unsustainability, libertarianism will rise from the ashes.

I do not see how this would be possible, we do not live in an ideal world, and for this reason a government is needed to maintain an army. If a state were to collapse and become libertarianistic, it would be promptly invaded/taken-over by it's neighboring nations. Even if a collapsed nation was not annexed by it's neighbors, the sudden collapse of all socialist systems (police/transit/electricity/etc...) would most likely drive out it's citizens into neighboring nations; the organization needed to continue these systems would not exist, and it would be incredibly difficult to rebuild them. It is much more likely that citizens would flee to neighboring countries, and that the land would be annexed. Am I missing something important? I agree that libertarianism has potential as a better economic/political structure, but I do not see how it could be implemented with our current system of socialistic nations.
Jane_Doe
 
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Joined: 2015-04-12- 12:19

Re: This Comes About - How Exactly?

Postby Editor1 » 2015-04-19- 13:44

Hi Jane,
Welcome to the forum! It would seem that you are the first one. We are honored.
You pose a very important (and interesting) question. Kindly see our explanation below.

Jane_Doe wrote:I've been reading the articles for some time, however there is one issue that is constantly skirted around, or vaguely alluded to. This website is dedicated to showing why Libertarianism is the best economic/political structure, yet you overlook the daunting issues of how it could ever be implemented.


This is correct and as strange as it may seem, we don't know the exact path that this evolution will take, although there is one element of your thinking that is in error, if we may say so. The idea that Libertarianism can be "implemented" conveys the notion that "somebody" will implement it. An Authority of sorts. But the whole point of Libertarianism is that there is no authority superior to you. As such, it is impossible to "implement" Libertarianism. We will simply evolve into Libertarianism, the free markets providing the most economically efficient way(s) to do so. Having said that, if we look at current events and extrapolate from them we may be able to glimpse into the future and this is what we do. However, we are fully aware that all our future-casts are just that, guesses. We can never hope to approximate the collective wisdom and solution development capabilities of free markets. With this into consideration, let's proceed.

Jane_Doe wrote:As the authors have repeatedly stated, governments wield their vast power towards two primary goals: socialization so as to acquire more votes; and espionage programs (censorship/data analysis etc...). No sane government would ever switch to libertarianism (it would be literal political suicide), and the articles clearly agree with me there. Instead, it seems to be alluded that when socialist governments collapse under their own economic unsustainability, libertarianism will rise from the ashes.


This is correct. As our theory of political evolution clearly states, the economy is the engine of such evolution. Socialist systems are inherently un-sustainable and as such they will collapse as they are already doing today (albeit doing an excellent job at disguising it). And yes indeed, Libertarianism will rise from their ashes, but it won't do so in any sort of coordinated or pre-planned fashion. It won't do so either as a one-time historical event. There won't be a definitive point in history where future historians will be able to point at and say "that was the formal birth of our Libertarian society". It will be messy and transitional in nature. One baby step at the time. When this beings (and it has actully already begun) nobody will notice it. It will be something people just do as a matter of instinct or common sense. It will be (is) routine. Non-events.

Jane_Doe wrote:I do not see how this would be possible, we do not live in an ideal world, and for this reason a government is needed to maintain an army. If a state were to collapse and become libertarianistic, it would be promptly invaded/taken-over by it's neighboring nations..


You are indeed correct. The problem is that historically this was never the case and we have no reason to believe this will be the case going forward. Countries don't suddenly collapse and become nothing. Collapsing countries are simply tansformed into other countries, albeit in this case less socialistic and more Libertarian. What this means is that when a country collapses it will simply be re-built on a different premise, this time more Libertarian. Now, this premise will be political in nature and as such it will maintain existing armies, police forces, judiciary and so on. The difference is that it will be less of them and they will become less efficient because people will simply ignore them. The biggest element to take into consideration is that without economic control a government cannot afford said infrastructure. The key elelment of people ignoring the government is the restriction of theft (taxes) that governments will suffer. As such governments will slowly and surely wither towards obvlivion. This is not political fiction but reality. It is happening in Argentina, which as you know, we use as a crystal ball to look into the future. See for example http://www.freedomandpower.ws/index.php/lessons/69-lesson-022-when-countries-dissolve
Because of this, it is unlikely that your scenario will ever be played in reality. But even if it is, even if a collapsed country becomes Libertarian and it is invaded by other, this other is also subjected to the unstoppable laws of political evolution. It will, in time, collapse and become Libertarian too. The point is that there is no escape from this future. The only questions are when and how and this is the interesting part to observe.

Jane_Doe wrote:Even if a collapsed nation was not annexed by it's neighbors, the sudden collapse of all socialist systems (police/transit/electricity/etc...) would most likely drive out it's citizens into neighboring nations; the organization needed to continue these systems would not exist, and it would be incredibly difficult to rebuild them. It is much more likely that citizens would flee to neighboring countries, and that the land would be annexed. Am I missing something important? I agree that libertarianism has potential as a better economic/political structure, but I do not see how it could be implemented with our current system of socialistic nations.


The collapse of socialist systems which includes the collapse of its so-called "services" (police/transit/electricity/etc...) has already happened in many countries around the world. This is not new. Yet, unless the situation becomes a life-or-death one, we see no evidence of people leaving their homes. A few examples, USSR, Honduras and Iraq. Interestingly enough, even in many life-or-death situations, people still choose to stay in their countries and thrive under a proto-Libertarian system. See for example http://www.freedomandpower.ws/index.php/reality-check/244-somalia-the-great-austro-libertarian-failure-part-1.

But let's move a step forward. Let's assume that what you are saying is correct. Let's assume that people will indeed flee and that the country will be annexed. In this case we simply refer to our previous point. The country where this people flee and the country annexing the decimated one will in term also be subjected to political evolutionary forces and become Libertarian. Essentially what you are seing are a set of transitional steps. We cannot forecast the exact nature of said steps nor their timing but what we can forecast is the general direction of these steps and this direction is Libertarianism.

You must remember that you have been brainwashed since you were a child into believing that the only possible human organizations are countries and that nothing exists beyond them. Clearly, this is not the case. We, the people, gave rise to countries but we, the people, existed before countries did. As such, evolving beyond the concept of country is simply a retrun to our very own human nature. What is artificial is the concept of "country", not the concept of Libertarianism and self-determination. What is artificial is the concept of "social contract", not the ties and relationships that we, the people, create with one another, one person at the time. See http://www.freedomandpower.ws/index.php/lessons/167-lesson-091-social-contracts-are-a-scam-part-1, http://www.freedomandpower.ws/index.php/al-lessons/172-lesson-096-the-absolute-austro-libertarian-social-contract-part-1 and http://www.freedomandpower.ws/index.php/lessons/132-lesson-055-contracts-are-the-key-to-coexistance-part-i

The key element to consider here is that our way towards Libertarianism is not a revolution, but a slow, messy, complicated, unrully and beautiful evolution.

Hope this clarifies your questions.
Editor1
 
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Joined: 2014-05-25- 17:20


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